About the Episode

Hey Outlaws, I’m so excited to bring today’s guest on the show, Haley Hatcher, who is an integral part of this podcast from launch to the weekly management. Haley is the founder and CEO of Heart Centered Podcasting, she believes everyone has a story that is worth sharing, but knows it’s not always easy to get that out onto the airwaves.

This episode is perfect timing as we’ve just celebrated a year of the podcast and a year of working together. You’re going to hear a bit about our weekly process and the myths that surround launching a podcast. Whether you have a podcast, want to start one, or just want to hear about a different kind of expertise, this episode is for you.

Topics discussed in episode #46

Topics Discussed:

  • A bit about the origin story of the Entrepreneurial Outlaws launch and why Melanie outsourced to Haley
  • Why Haley believes everyone has a story to tell and how you can confidently share yours
  • Dispelling a few common myths of launching and growing a podcast, plus who should and shouldn’t launch a podcast
  • The importance of a streamlined podcast workflow and how it can help you and/or your team
  • What it means to Haley to be an Entrepreneurial Outlaw, especially in the context of being a mom and small business owner


Connect with Melanie here:


*This is a raw and unedited transcript.

Melanie Knights (00:03):

Okay. So today we at joined by Haley Hatcher off Heart Centered Podcasting. I'm so excited to chat with you today. Haley, thank you for coming on.

Haley Hatcher (00:14):

Thank you for having me.

Melanie Knights (00:16):

So I know we're going to cover a few different kind of areas around podcasting and storytelling, which I'm really excited to discuss with you, but I think we should start at the beginning of how did you start your business and why podcast management?

Haley Hatcher (00:33):

Yeah, so originally in 2017 I was working for a, another online business management agency and it was just something that kind of fell into my lap when I got pregnant, but that was my first real dip into working completely virtual in the online world. And then two years after working there, my boss there, she decided to close the business doors, um, a little bit overnight actually. And so I was at this crossroads, you know, do I take the clients that I'm currently working with and try to go about it on my own or do I, you know, suck it up and find a nine to five job. And I talked to my husband and he said, you know, you might as well just try it. So that was actually last month in September, we celebrated our two year anniversary. So I would say I'm so grateful and very lucky to get to this point. And I can't wait to see what the next two years old.

Melanie Knights (01:34):

Yeah. That's, I think that's really great because so often we hear these stories, um, and my story as well, where, you know, you're in the corporate world and you hate your job and that's not your story at Ford. It was a case of making a decision and I'm so glad that you did make that decision cause otherwise we wouldn't be lucky for, so I'm really grateful for that too. Um, so you and I connected last summer through a mutual friend and have been working together ever since from launching entrepreneurial Outlaws to ongoing weekly management. Um, and you've been alone for the whole journey so far. And I was thinking about this. One of the things I remember from our original cool is how much you believed in me, how much you believed in the message that I had, that I wanted to share through this podcast. Um, and you believed in my story and why I was trying to create, and you and I are both in the business of storytelling in different ways. And I'm curious what advice you have for anyone listening, who has been thinking about starting a podcast or really anything in their business, but it doesn't feel like their story matters.

Haley Hatcher (02:41):

Yeah, definitely. I remember when we had our first call, I think you were just like really starting to grasp onto this idea of entrepreneurial Outlaws. So it's been so excited to see that come to fruition, but just like what you tapped on. And like one of our really big messages here at heart centered podcasting is the fact that, you know, we believe that every woman has a story to tell and we want to help them tell it, you know? And I think that so many times women, especially women who are kind of doing something different, whether that's just entrepreneurship as a whole or finding what it is that they're passionate about and what it is that they're meant to do. I think that society kind of tells us, you know, we need to fit into this certain mold and we need to, you know, stay in our lane almost.

Haley Hatcher (03:35):

And so when we try to do something different or, um, we try to connect with the people that we know we're meant to connect with. I think we run into these roadblocks where we think that we are inherently wrong or what we believe isn't true, or our story doesn't matter to anyone else but us. And if we try to tell it, it'll come off as, you know, selfish and self absorbing and all of the other, you know, negative things that you have been told or that you can connect to that. So I just think that I am a podcast manager and I do help people launch, but I think underneath of that, oh, big part that I love about what I do is helping the women that I'm working with to feel confident and to feel like their message matters and that it needs to be into the world. And that there are very specific people who are waiting to hear that exact message.

Melanie Knights (04:36):

Yeah. And I think you do a really good job of that as well. I would agree that I said even from the initial cool, I knew that you believed in my story and I really, I appreciated the fact that it wasn't just like a business card. It wasn't just like, okay, what do you need? Here's how much it's going to be. It was, it was a conversation and it was a, it was a deep dive into what it was that I wanted to do and why. And I think that even through over the last year of working together, I continue to see that because I know that I have lots of ideas all the time and you know, we obviously discuss those ideas and look how to it, but at no point, do I ever think Haley doesn't like Fridays? I always, it's always a case of, okay, what's the idea, what's the purpose of this and how can we kind of bring it to life? And I love being able to do that together because I love that collaboration. I think that's so important.

Haley Hatcher (05:31):

Yeah. Yeah. I think that, I mean, you, and then most of my other clients, the thread that all of you ladies have in common is that you tend to be big visionaries and then you come to me and you're like, okay, so how do I make this work on the podcast? And so then I have to take that big goal, that big dream, that big vision that you have and, you know, break it down so that we can make it work. And I, I love doing that. That's I thrive.

Melanie Knights (05:58):

Yes, yes. It definitely works for us visionary who cannot necessarily reign it all in. Um, okay. So when it comes to podcasting, I mean, so one of the, you you've had this before, and I've talked about this on the show before as well that I first got like the podcasting bug back in 2016, I think. And I wanted to start a podcast, but it never felt like the right time. And I do believe it wasn't the right time because I wouldn't have been able to create what I've created now back then. But one of the things that always really held me back was I would let a law about the tech side of things and, and those kinds of pieces, but I became really overwhelmed very quickly about podcasting, about, you know, how to launch or when was the right time to launch it. And I know that you have some thoughts on this and you've worked for so many different people on launching their podcast. And I was really grateful to have you by my side, as I launched the podcast, because it was still very overwhelming to do something you've never done before, but can you just share a bit about, you know, launching a podcast and that process and that experience and really how you can, how you help myself and others to get the idea out there and actually launched the thing?

Haley Hatcher (07:17):

Yeah, definitely. So a lot of my clients, they come to me and they've already tried to DIY their launch and there's definitely like nothing wrong with that at all. I think that if you can DIY your launch into something that you feel comfortable doing and you enjoy doing then by all means, go for it. But most of my clients, like I said, they come to me and they're like, Hey, I tried this, I ran into this, this and this. And I just could not make it work. And a lot of that is the tech side. A lot of it is the emotional blocks that come up with it, or just like not knowing how to make the launch successful. And when you look at a podcast, it's a little bit different launch process than any other launch that you do in your business, because just behind the scenes before, like not going into it too much, but there's just certain things you have to do tech wise, which makes the launch of your podcast inherently a little bit longer than what you might be used to.

Haley Hatcher (08:11):

So I really help my clients break it down, you know, between like six months or sorry, 60 days and three months, um, doing everything behind the scenes. I like to take off all of the tech work, um, off of their plate and all of the, even like content writing and graphic creation and things like that. So the only thing that they really have to focus on is their story and what exactly it is that they want to say and you know, how they want to be perceived and how they want to connect with their audience. So they are like have the freedom to really lean into that and then shuck off everything that is taking away from them, being able to lean into their story and figure that out. So I think that is a really big help. And that's what a podcast manager can do for you, if you do outsource your launch.

Haley Hatcher (09:08):

And, um, another thing is like whenever my clients launch, you know, a few days after the launch date or a couple of weeks, whatever it is, 99% of the time they're going to come to me and say, oh my gosh, I, why didn't I do this sooner? You know? And so I think that that for me, is a big win when I can work in my zone of genius and work on, you know, the tech side and other front facing aspects, but getting to really see my clients become more confident, not only like behind the microphone, um, on a literal level, but just seeing them really own their message and what they believe in. That's how I measure success.

Melanie Knights (09:53):

I love that. I love the five of that's, how you measure success as well, because I think it's so important to be able to look at that in different ways. And I know that just my own experience of doing this show over time, you find things that work for you and the communication becomes easier, but also, you know, once you've gone through that workflow a few times, you can see where there's gaps, so you can see how to adjust things. And I think that's one of the reasons why I love it so much is because it is such a collaborative approach. And, you know, we get to produce, I mean, you essentially are producing so many, you know, different conversations and podcasts or making this incredible impacts. And I think that's so powerful. And just to know that that's being put around the world, it's really inspiring as well, because there probably also many times when we hold back, I mean, I know this so many times when we hold back with either, you know, conversations or creating something in our business, because we're uncertain.

Melanie Knights (10:52):

And just to have a team on your side who will help you kind of walk through those tech things. Because, you know, I know that when I looked at starting the podcast, I had this idea in homicide, the editing is going to be the thing that stops me from putting this out into the world. I was, I was like, I know that I'm a perfectionist. I am going to spend just so much time doing that, that I knew that that was something I didn't want to have to do. And so grateful to our paths crossed in that I haven't had to do that. But as you say, you get to focus on that story because in of itself, as a business or not, even if you're comfortable with your message and you're really inspired by your own, you know, what you're sharing and how you want to impact other people's lives, just sitting down every week with a microphone and talking, and then putting out into the world can still be really daunting. It can still be scary to, to actually share that piece of you with the world.

Haley Hatcher (11:52):

Yeah, I agree. I mean, there's a reason why I don't have a podcast, but, um, I mean, and because I'm so busy, but, um, I think too, like I know you hit on the workflow a little bit and that's just something I kind of wanted to touch on as well, because, um, I think when you do perfect that workflow and it becomes streamlined, that's another thing that can make you feel competent. And a lot of people, I don't think they would necessarily connect those two things, but when you have total and complete faith in the fact that things are going to get done, that just frees up so much

Haley Hatcher (12:29):

Brain space for you to focus on the things that matter, even if it's not even necessarily your podcast. You know, I think that when you have your podcast workflow really streamlined and outsource, yes, you can focus more on the actual episodes you want to create, but you can also focus more on other things in your business that if you didn't outsource, you would be spending time on. So, you know, you can focus more on your client work or like other income producing activities, just because you have that freedom and you have that ease that our workflow together has created for you. Yeah. I would agree that that worked for it is it is helpful because, and it does boost your confidence because you also, for me, at least I can, I can save possibly I know what's coming. Like I know when I record an episode, what I need to be involved in, and I know who's taking care of the rest and I have an idea of timelines and where everything will be.

Melanie Knights (13:33):

And I think that's really important as well. Um, and I think it's probably one of the, the most streamlined systems that I've ever had in my business. Um, because it's, you know, it is replicated. And even when we have new ideas or new concepts, we know that we can still take the existing workflow and kind of just make it into what it needs to be. So, yeah, it works really. He works really, really well. Um, okay. So when it comes to podcasting, I know that you probably, there are probably a lot of misconceptions about either when to loon chair or, you know, which things I know you have preferred, um, tech and systems and you shed these on Instagram and your content as well, but when it comes to podcasting, what are some of the misconceptions you see around, like why we should start a podcast or what it can do for your business?

Haley Hatcher (14:32):

Yeah. So definitely I think the biggest two that I see when it comes to people, not launching a podcast is one. They think that it's really expensive. And two, like I said, they think that their message doesn't matter. So just like touching on that expensive piece, you know, um, I know there are microphones out there that cost hundreds of dollars, but there are also really, really great microphones out there that costs, you know, between like 35 and 75 bucks that you can get your hands on. And then a lot of the other, uh, software tools that you will need for launching your podcast, you're probably already using in your business. Um, so things like your Canva and your website and things like that, we will work that into your podcast and then even getting into hosting, like not to get too made up, but, um, hosting doesn't cost that much, either most hosting platforms you can find out there are going to range between five and $15 a month, just depending on, uh, how many episodes that you're going to upload per month and how much, you know, data storage you're going to use.

Haley Hatcher (15:48):

So if cost is a factor for you, that's holding you back, I would say, don't let that hold you back. Just take a day to like really look into all of the things that you'll need and figure out what that monthly cost is going to be for you. And you'll probably be really pleasantly surprised. Um, and then that second myth, like I said, um, not believing in your message. I know we already kind of talked on that, but I always just tell my clients, Hey, your audience is waiting to hear your message. They already know you. They already love you. They already trust you. So anything that you put out for them that is transparent and heart centered and, um, really heartfelt, then they are going to latch on to that. So those are the two biggest things that I see, but kind of on the other side, um, I see a lot of people who try to start, I don't see this with my clients.

Haley Hatcher (16:45):

Okay. Because my clients are all heart-centered. But, um, I see a lot of people try to launch a podcast is because they think it's going to be like this money-making machine for them. But that is just not true because I think that we all see, you know, these huge podcasts that we know and love like, um, Melanie, I know you and I love armchair expert or Bernay Brown's podcast or Glenn and Doyle's podcast, or like, whatever it is that you are comparing it to. Yes, those podcasts are raking in the big bucks because they have millions of downloads and listeners each week. So they are going to be able to get that ad revenue. And that's just not something that you will have right away, unless you are, you know, like them and have that huge audience, but your podcasts can make you money in the sense that it just becomes like this catalyst to connect with your audience that you have, and then to also grow your audience.

Haley Hatcher (17:49):

So it's not the, it's not going to bring you revenue as soon as you launch, but it's something that if you stay consistent with over time, it will grow and it will automatically funnel into your business. So I tell my clients that your podcast is your tofu, you know, your top of the funnel. And if you understand that and you treat it as such, it will work just as good for you as, you know, a low spend Facebook ad or engaging in showing up on social media, things like that. This is just the starting point for your audience.

Melanie Knights (18:26):

I've never had the phrase turfy as to funnel Fastly. Um, I was like, where is she going with this? Oh, okay. Um, but secondly, most of the point, um, I think that's really interesting because for me, when I think about podcasting, I feel like to me, it's an alternative form of content to blogging or, you know, recording videos, um, which has always been one of the reasons I have wanted to, you know, really embrace that because I know I can talk. And I know that I find that a very easy way of explaining something in my business. And so, you know, I've done blogging and I've done video recording. And how do you channel all those kinds of things over the last six years? But I never saw a podcasting as a way to make money. And I think as you touched on that, when it comes to podcasting, like it is a form of content, it is a slightly different form of content.

Melanie Knights (19:20):

And I think it could be so great. I know in the business sphere, we, I kind of, I never even really had a podcasting until I started a business and it was kind of a year or so in when I started to read and listened to podcasts. And I realized how, you know, just like re listening to audio books. It was actually a really great medium for me, um, in both aspects. But one of the things that I've noticed recently, and I thought I would mention now is I just felt kind of fell down a true crime, um, rabbit hole over the summer. And I've been really curious, listening to those podcasts because there's so much, so much research that goes into those episodes. Um, and so much information that has to be gathered. And I've listened to some that may be a couple of years old and one that's maybe five or six years old, and you can really hear it.

Melanie Knights (20:06):

I kind of progress progress and evolution in their recording and the way in which they approach their podcasting. And I think it's really interesting to look at those shows as well, from my perspective as a podcaster, because I think, well, they use like Patrion and different ways in which to, you know, really build an audience outside of community, outside of their podcast. And I think the thing that really stood out to me is because I've always looked at podcasting from a business lens and I've always approached it from that way. Being able to see these other, other podcasters who are doing things slightly differently has been really interesting as well. And really kind of, I looked, I was like, oh, there's so many other ways in which you can grow and build a community as well. Um, in addition to the kind of traditional ways we do it in business. So I love that you touched on the fact that these big names and in podcasting, all these big podcasts that we listened to, you know, it's, it's very different. Um, for those of us who are just starting out with a much smaller audience and maybe, you know, without the ad spend and things like that as well.

Haley Hatcher (21:08):

Yeah. And okay, first of all, who hasn't gone down a true crime hole when it comes to podcasting, that's how I got started. But, um, and I think that hits on another thing too. Another myth conception or myth, whatever that I see is a lot of people think that they don't have a big enough audience for a podcast launch to be successful, but, um, that's just like not true at all because no matter where you're at with your audience, your podcast will only help it. So if you're starting with a small audience, that's great. That means in the beginning, you will have a really engaged listenership. Most likely if you are already engaged with your small audience, you know, and you can make them really like more specific ask of them and do it more often because you do have that smaller audience. And the great thing about a small audience is the fact that it's a little less intimidating, right? Because on those first few episodes, you know, if you mess something up and only a couple, you know, like 50 or even a hundred people are listening, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Whereas if you mess something up, when you have a bigger audience where thousands, or maybe hundreds of thousands of people are listening, it feels a little bit more scary. Right. Um, so like with anything in your business, there's always pros and cons to a smaller audience and the same thing for a bigger audience as well.

Melanie Knights (22:27):

I mean, I'm a big fan of a small audience, and I would suddenly still consider myself to have a small audience because I think it's really subjective. I mean, when we look at, you know, audience size, if you compare it and not that we should be comparing, but you know, if you're looking at audience sizes, there are so many, um, it, it, it really depends. And I think that's, as you mentioned, one of the things that's really, you know, I love about a small audience anyway, is the fact that you can really get to know people and you can really have those deeper conversations. And I think as I was listening to you, just to explain that I was like, well, that, you know, I really feel like that in my own business and within the entrepreneurial Outlaws brand is that we do have those people who listen kind of on a consistent basis and the people who share and engage with that piece, those pieces of content.

Melanie Knights (23:16):

And of course, those people that also, you know, talk to me about being an outlaw or how they stretch their out little wings. And then there's those people who found the podcast by accident through some other way, and, you know, really embrace that and then sent me this story and things like that. And I think that's such a, you know, again, come back to storytelling and you said, like, everyone has a story and I've really believed that too. And I think that, you know, if we can share our own and share our message that inspires us and, and with the aim to, you know, support other people and be very honest and transparent about those conversations that welcomes and allows other people to also share that story, whether it's privately with you in a DM or an email, or if they then decide they actually want to do something similar or however they want to share that. And I think that's really empowering as well and impactful. Um, and the fact that, you know, we can have these kinds of conversations and these collaborations publicly I think is so cool. Um, and it really, really, you know, to me, it's one of the key things I love about podcasting is that it has really brought new people into this community and has also strengthened the community in ways that I wouldn't have imagined because I was so nervous when I first launched that podcast, this podcast, I should say,

Haley Hatcher (24:40):

Yeah, a hundred percent. And it's just been so fun to even see like your own growth, you know? Um, and I think like the easiest way to measure, like how well you do in front. I mean, how well you do in general with podcasting and how confident you are is this is the same with all my clients, you know, in those first couple of episodes, there's always like so many edits then in, um, when you get further into it and you get more experience, I can just send it off to my editor and be like, oh, ah, nothing here, just please add the assets. And so it just becomes like so much easier and you realize like, okay, I have this down now. Like, I feel like a pro

Melanie Knights (25:16):

Yes. And there's nothing like realizing what you say or you, when you look at that transcript or less than back, you think to yourself, do I really sound like that? Do you want to say this all the time? And I knew that that was potentially going to happen, but you just realize, like you make sad noises or you say things in certain ways. And I think that's really funny that you kind of, I mean, for me, this is obviously just how I speak and I very much speak in a, in a conversational way. And I, cause I'm like, if you send me a voice message on Instagram, that's the same or a book. So that's the same conversation. And I really believe that that's powerful part of this is to have this kind of conversation. So yeah, it definitely, you definitely grow with confidence and learn how to pause and learn how to, um, make sure that if, you know, if there's spaces where you either mess up or if there's an edit that needs to be done. Um, I think you, again, as the port Costa and the person who's recording, you become more confident with that. Um, and it becomes easier. I would hope for you as well.

Haley Hatcher (26:19):

Yeah, definitely, definitely. It definitely does become easier. So I am appreciative of that for sure.

Melanie Knights (26:26):

Well, it's because you teach us. Um, okay. So before we wrap up today, I do you have a question that I want to ask you, which I ask every guest as you know, full well. Um, and that is what does it mean to be an entrepreneurial outlook and you want me in business? Yeah.

Haley Hatcher (26:43):

Um, I think being an entrepreneurial outlaw for me is really tied into how I run my business and motherhood in general, because I guess like for a really long time, I've felt like I could not run a successful business and be a mom at the same time. But learning like how you always say you can do business on your own terms. That is how I have crafted and molded my business. So, you know, maybe some days I only work one hour that day, or maybe other days I am working at 7:00 PM or 8:00 PM. And I've just learned to try to not feel guilt around that because I am being present with my family when it matters most. Um, and then just like on the business side, something that I feel like I try to always do is be transparent. And still even with all of the, I guess, advances that we've seen in the online business world where people are becoming, I guess, more outlaw ish. Um, but I will always be transparent with my clients about pricing, about what something includes. And then I have a little bit more flexible boundaries around making things work. So, you know, if my clients, they need to pause for a month or something like that, or their package needs to, uh, adjust for a little bit, then I will make that work for them. Um, but yeah, I guess like, those are the two biggest things that I try to do to run my business on my own terms and to be an entrepreneur outlaw.

Melanie Knights (28:24):

Yeah. And I love that and I would agree that, you know, very much an outlier in your business and the way in which you, you know, accommodate your clients, but also the way in which you approach business and from the get-go I know when we sat down and spoke, I could tell that we had, you know, we had a connection in that way and we were going to be able to kind of build something and that you were the right person to kind of take on this with me. Um, so I really appreciate that. So before you head off, um, could you let everybody know where they can find you? And I know that you have, um, a workflow, a freebie that you wanted to let everyone know about. So if anyone is listening and looking to start a podcast, um, this would be a great place to kind of get some of those first steps in place as well.

Haley Hatcher (29:14):

Yeah, definitely. So I'm only in one place online, which maybe is outlaw in itself there, but you can find me on Instagram at a heart-centered podcasting. And then that workflow that Millie and I talked about earlier, I have a template for that for a sauna, but you can put that in whatever project management tool that you use and that's right on my website, right on the homepage. So just go to heart-centered podcasting.com and you can download that for free.

Melanie Knights (29:40):

Perfect. Thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you for bearing with my congestion. No, you're fine. Um, but thank you. We'll make sure we'll, you know, we'll, we'll make sure that's up in the show notes and, um, that everyone that can follow along and, um, yeah, again, touch with you and grab that freebie as well. Definitely. I mean, I'm excited for people to hear this. Thank you.